Dean Penney tells 1st-degree murder trial he felt forced by sting to 'make up a story'

james dean Penney mat intimidated and scared spell workings with fictitious crime organization, he tells court at trial

Dean Penney takes the stand in his own murder trial

The moment Dean Penney told an undercover police about death of Jennifer Hillier-Penney

Blood splatter experts testify about potential stains in Dean Penney's garage

Tensions rise during Dean Penney trial as mother of defence’s ‘alternate suspect’ testifies

7 forensics reports, and nearly 700 pages of text messages, under the microscope at Dean Penney trial

At murder trial, Dean Penney's daughter says her mother was 'scared' of him

Dean Penney's eldest daughter testifies against him for the alleged killing of her mother

Fictitious crime boss faces cross-examination in Dean Penney's murder trial

And that’s where Dean Penney’s testimony will end for the day. He’ll return to the witness box for a fourth day of testimony at 10 a.m. NT Tuesday.

As the conversation went on, Penney said, he continuously felt he was being backed into a corner.

"I was overcome with everything.… I didn’t know what to do. I didn’t know where to turn," Penney said.

Penney said he felt the conversation move from interview to interrogation, and told the court he felt he needed a way out.

"All that was really going through my mind was how to make up a story that would sound like it could be true."

Penney says he was trying to affirm he had nothing to do with Jennifer Hillier-Penney’s disappearance. This prompted reaction from members of her family, with some showing signs of frustration.

The next part of Gruchy's questioning centres around a memo that the crime boss showed Penney during the first interview.

The memo was a fake document created by Rudy to look like an official RCMP memo. The memo said police were close to arresting Penney in his estranged wife's death based on evidence they had, and that officers should be prepared for the national media attention his arrest would garner.

Penney read the document on board the yacht. He said he was upset by it, as he feared he was going to be arrested for something he didn’t do. He questioned what the evidence to "make me look guilty" was.

Penney said he continued to tell Rudy that he was innocent, and that Rudy wasn’t having it. Gruchy read a section of the transcript that backs that up, as Penney told Rudy he was being "as honest as I can be."

Rudy told the court during his own testimony that the interview is a voluntary process. If Penney felt pressure or wanted to leave, Rudy said he could do so.

Penney said he didn’t feel that there was a way out. He feared what could have happened if he left the interview, especially given his knowledge of the organization.

"If I tried to leave that dock, knowing what I knew, I felt that I was probably putting my life in jeopardy."

Throughout the conversation with Rudy, Penney said, he felt like Rudy wasn’t giving him space to declare his innocence.

"He would just stop me and cut me off," Penney said.

"He didn’t want me to say that I had nothing to do with it. He wanted me to say what he wanted to hear."

Penney said he felt fearful, and that Rudy was trying to forcibly put thoughts in his head.

Penney and Gruchy pivot to conversations Penney and the crime boss had about lies.

Penney said he believed the crime boss, known by the pseudonym Rudy, wanted trustworthy people. Penney said he felt Rudy was someone he couldn’t lie to. 

This is backed up by the transcript of the interview. When Penney is asked by Rudy who the one person he can’t lie to is, Penney responds, "You."

Questions around the first recorded interview begin. The interview took place on Nov. 30, 2023, aboard a yacht in Vancouver.

Penney tells the court he believed the interview with the crime boss was a job interview.

Gruchy asks Penney if he was aware the crime boss didn’t like him before the interview. Crown attorney Shawn Patten objects, calling it a leading question. The jury briefly left the room so the legal teams and the judge could talk it out, and proceedings resumed after about two minutes.

When things resumed, Penney said he believed the crime boss wasn’t going to give him the job because he thought he might not like him.

But first, defence lawyer Mark Gruchy brings up a discussion between Penney and Vic, an undercover RCMP officer, from Nov. 5, 2023. The conversation saw Penney questioning what might happen to people who cross the organization.

The conversation was played in court, and used by Gruchy as ammunition against Vic's testimony. When Penney asked if the organization makes people disappear, Vic said "not really … if you ever did something stupid, then maybe that’s something different."

Gruchy said that implied that violence was a possibility for disobedience. Penney says he felt that was the case.

"If somebody was causing a problem … I guess they would basically kill you," Penney said. 

Penney starts today's testimony by talking about the ship's captain job he thought he was applying for within the fictitious criminal organization set up around him by the RCMP. He said the job appealed to him more than other work the group did, as he felt more at home on the water as a fisherman.

The job interview for him to become captain of the crime boss’s yacht was the scenario that set up the first of two recorded interviews with Penney and the crime boss. In those interviews, Penney confessed his involvement in Jennifer Hillier-Penney’s death.

---

---